Also striking in this whole fiasco around Steve’s health is the response from the Apple faithful. Check out the comments on this blog for a representative sample. Criticize the PR operation at Apple, or Dear Leader himself, and the Apple faithful swarm out in droves to call you a traitor or worse. My email inbox has even worse stuff. Or check out blogs like this one which is called “i drank the kool-aid” (ahem) and which now has become devoted to bashing me.
Friends, I’m sorry, but you’re enablers. Steve Jobs behaves like a spoiled child and you not only tolerate it, you defend it. Apple PR is arrogant, rude, and then stumbles trying to handle a textbook PR situation — the kind of situation that occurs pretty regularly in the business world, and the reason that companies have PR departments in the first place — and you defend that too. You refuse to hold Apple to the same standards as every other company.
I’ll say this again. I admire Apple. I love its products. I have a house full of them. I love many of the people in the Mac community too.
I can even understand why Apple faithful overlook the shortcomings of a new Apple product, or look the other way when Apple produces a dud.
But it’s another thing to put up with being lied to and insulted. The reason Steve Jobs and Apple get away with this behavior is that nobody has ever held them accountable for their actions.
Dan,
I love your blog.
Let the first post be a happy one, and not a sad one.
Also, get your twitter stuff in line, you thanked me for my e-mail about it already…
There’s a psychological term for Mr. J’s behavior: King Baby
As you were withdrawing from FSJ, some of the commentary was gratuitously vindictive and highly emotional. It was as if you’d snatched a toy away from bunch of spoiled brats; little feet could be heard stomping the floorboards. The same mentality appears in recent comments. What can be said about the “I drank the koolaid” blog which blythely takes its name from the murder-suicide method of Jim Jones’ cult? Troubling, to say the least.
Is this all that Jobs uses his PR team for? attack mode?!? why not just call his PR department for what it is … Public Remonstration!
what a jerk.
oops. let me backdate that comment.
i love Apple (!)
Is this all that Jobs uses his PR team for? attack mode?!?
why not just call his PR department for what it is … Public Remonstration!
what a jerk.
oops. let me backdate that comment.
i love Apple (!)
Dan,
It’s like the whole Clinton-Lewinsky thing. Sure he lied. But, given the topic, who wouldn’t have? Having survived a grave illness probably leaves you insecure and vulnerable, so when it comes to matters of your personal health, you act more emotional than usually. It’s called human nature.
So, if the guy lies to you in matters of business, finance of products, if he’s too condescending towards the competition, grill him all you want. Call him a spoiled child even. But if it concerns his personal health and his past close encounters woth the grim reaper, cut him some slack, cause otherwise you come across as overly cold and cynical. We all lie in certain sensitive areas.
BTW, I think you’re making it too easy on yourself by devaluing your critics as Apple apologists. I believe most commenters would grant Steve Ballmer similar lenience, if he were in a comparable situation.
AMEN!! It’s sad that the mainstream press is so in love with Apple and their products that they have lost their objective reporting when it comes to El Jobso. The fact is that if Steve is sick, if he is ill and has to leave the company, the stock tanks. His health may be a private matter to him, but the health of the company is not private. In fact, the health of the company is very, very public. If old El Jobso really wants to have everything as a “private” matter, then he needs to purchase up all those Apple shares and take the company private. Somehow though, I don’t think that’ll happen.
As for Mr. Dan Lyons, I applaud everything that you’re doing. I love that you’re laying it on Jobs in the same manner that you lay it on Ballmer or Jerry Yang. Could it be that you’re the last of the objective tech journalists left in America? Keep on making the same truthful observations that made FSJ such a phenomenon. It’s just sad that certain fanatics can’t seem to handle it when those observations turn on their glorious messiah.
OMG! Mr. Satire himself doesn’t recognize a satirical name of a blog when he sees one! Thank you for making my day.
But for the record, the two posts on you (and my oh my your ego is large, the site is DEDICATED to bashing YOU?). Two posts? Boy you are a pompous piece of work.
The site is dedicated, just like FSJ, to poking fun at the Apple community. Are you really that obtuse?
But FWIW, the last two posts about you (the ONLY negative posts about you btw – seems you didn’t have a problem with me when I praised you several dozen times) were not satire. 99% of the blog is.
Funny, you can’t recognize a satire blog when you see it. Actually not funny, pathetic.
Thanks for the link though. Namaste.
lmao @ dizzle
I completely agree.
“You refuse to hold Apple to the same standards as every other company.”
I think it’s because people love the underdog. It’s the rivalry, Microsoft vs. Apple. For years, Microsoft was the dominant one. They still are, even though more people are realizing they suck.
You’re a fellow Red Sox fan, it’s kinda the same thing with them. They were the underdog for 86 years. People were born and died never seeing them win the World Series. Their was that rivalry with the Yankees (still there). Even when the Yankees started tanking in 2001, the Red Sox were still the underdog. The ALCS of 2003 definitely didn’t help matters. It was easy to love them though. Say you are born to a house of Yankee fans. Want to be rebellious? Become a member of Red Sox Nation.
(note: yankee universe = douchebags)
But now that they’ve won twice, the fans have become cocky. It’s more evident with the pink hat situation. The pink Red Sox hats have been around for awhile now. While I don’t like them, it’s a cute hat for your girlfriend to wear. Whatevah. But now, it’s become a symbol for bandwagoners. It doesn’t matter if you bought it in the 90′s or prior to 2004, you’re now labeled a bandwagon fan, and thus hated.
My point? 2 underdogs, 2 groups of fanatics that are on the verge of going out of control, and 2 groups I’m proud to be a part of. Say something bad about Apple, and you’re attacked by your very own. Get seen in public with a pink Red Sox hat that your purchased 15 years ago, and your attacked by your very own.
All hail Zen Master Tito!
- Barry
Dan, to some small degree they are being held accountable in the fall of their share price. The longer they drag this out the longer their share price will be hurt about it, but I can imagine a situation where this is a good idea.
What if Jobs is really sick, and not going to recover, they may be intentionally letting people worry a little bit to spread out the damage rather than have it all hit in one huge chink that might lead to some super panic selling with super lows.
I don’t know how much companys really care or think about these things.
Dizzle, some of this is also satire. Maybe more than I realize.
@FBO I doubt it. His last few posts have been nothing but vapid shallow and nasty hackery. Anyways, I was a regular poster over at FSJ and am well aware of the type of abuse I can expect here. You know where to find me if you wish to talk.
In a way, this is like losing a friend. I used to think Dan was the bomb – doing true satire. Turns out that is just who he is. I hate losing something that I enjoyed. Now I have quite a few friends saying “I told you so.” Oh well. I will remember the laughs and move on.
Later – let the abuse begin.
Whoa, Mr. Dizzle! You have leapt on RDL, when it was I who found your breezy bloggish take on a murderous suicide cult disturbing and you have resorted once again to childish schoolyard insults. I bet you pick your nose.
Again I say, jeez Dan. I’m not sure if you think my posts fall into the category you are attacking. I’m really sorry about people who insult you, but if you become a successful jounro/blogger I guess you have to deal with that. Success, very well deserved in your case, has its price. Everything does.
Do you think all of us who criticised your original post are crazed Fan Boys who can’t listen to criticism of Apple and Jobs? Give Jobs a good pasting everyday if you want to, please just don’t see it so much from a journo’s/PR guy’s point of view. I don’t know Jobs but it does sound like he has an ego the size of the Grand Canyon. I think there’s a positive side to that, but no doubt a very negative side for a lot of people who have to deal with him. You may think I’m just a horrible fanboy, but Jobs being unnecessarily horrid to PR people and journos is not the same thing as acting against the interest of Apple share holders, to whom he is responsible to through the board.
Give us a good case for saying saying that Jobs is harming share values, don’t just leave it as a story about Jobs being rude if you have some genuine criticism of Jobs. If the CEO is behaving irrationally, it is the board who have to rein him in. How about laying into them as well as Jobs? They’re in it together. I’m not a jouro or PR person, and sorry but I just don’t care a lot if a CEO, any CEO, is rude to them. It’s not about Jobs, it’s about journos reporting on the world outside journalism. You must have noticed that journos and PR people have a pretty awful reputation amongst the general public, exactly how surprising is it that a lot of people don’t care about how Jobs handles them if Apple produces great products and gives good returns to its investors?
Idiot fanboys who insult you is a bad thing. But a lot of the criticism is not about defending Jobs, let us say for the sake of the argument that he is a rude psychopathic scum bag, that would not make him a bad CEO, if he was making money for his investors.
It’s simply not true that Jobs has the media in the palm of his hand and that it never criticises him. There’s an endless number of tech journos complaining that MBA is under specified, that the MacBook has cracks (no problems with mine), that the Macs are overpriced etc etc . There’s an endless number of business journos claiming that Jobs is handling the health issue the wrong way. There’s a huge numbers of journos just desperate to get noticed for knocking the crown off Jobs head.
There’s any number of CEO’s around using manipulative media coverage to generate favourable publicity and who hide information much more important than a health report, such as hiding the finances of their company/companies in a web of cross holdings and front plate companies in tax havens. You could easily write a blog about Richard Branson (Virgin Airlines etc etc) on those lines. Richard Branson of course behaves in a completely legal way, whether his way of using business law is very admirable is another matter.
Thanks for the good work, do you have to keep putting up posts which suggest that loyal readers and fans of your blog who disagree with you about something are demented fan boys?
Dan I basically agree with you that this has been badly handled, but it is only really important to Apple shareholders, and Valley hacks. The rest of us, even ordinary Mac users like myself, don’t really break into a sweat about this. And you are beginning to obsess, and you get a little boring when you obsess. I suppose it’s better than reading endless posts about some Linux hack with a fondness for cut and paste jobs, but only just.
Go outside, take a gentle stroll in the sunshine. Have a beer. Breathe deep. Whatever. Just leave the keyboard alone and please stop recycling your posts.
Well dizzle, RDL tore down the “forth wall” and informed us that this was also a character at the beginning of the blog. If what you say is true, and this isn’t all satire, then it was a lie to say it was a character. And if we can’t believe that to be true, then there are other things that must also be false, and thus, it’s all satire. Damn, a paradox.
But you’re proving his point. He speaks as FSJ, satire. He speaks as RDL talking about Microsoft, satire. He as RDL talks about Apple, the gloves come off.
Yeah, I know where to find you, with the other 4 posts about him. You say it’s not dedicated, and yet you recently added another post talking about it. Sure, it’s satire, fine. But while you think yours is satire, for some reason, you think this can’t be.
But you know where to find me. London. Banging Michelle and ObamaGirl. It’s awesome over here.
- Barry
@Istanbul iTard,
“that would not make him a bad CEO, if he was making money for his investors.”
But that’s the point, isn’t it? Back in late December 2007, it was at it’s highest of 199.83.
Fast forward a couple of months, May 13th, it’s 189.96. Not too bad of a drop, and we can blame the economy on that.
Go 6 months after they high, June 28th, $170.09.
July 23 – 166.26
July 24 – 159.03
July 25 – 162.12
July 28 – 160.80
So it’s dropped $39.03 from their all time high.
Good point FBO, though since share prices are bound to dip below speculative highs I’m not sure how significant this is. Let’s say it is significant, this is what Dan ought to be dealing with. If he can show a link between Jobs’ hiding his health and share price problems then great stuff, unfortunately I have to say he’s got somewhat preoccupied with questions about journalism, PR and the blogosphere reaction to his own comments. So let’s take the debate onto the relation between Jobs’ recent behaviour and the movement of share prices.
A big advantage of Dan Lyons out of character is that he can do straight criticism of Apple (instead of ironic criticism). And if Apple has countless sycophants among its customers, how bad do you suppose this problem is among Apple management? “Options” portrayed people standing up to Steve-o, but I doubt that happens much, and that’s a problem (one that Microsoft apparently suffers from).
It’s troubling that Apple’s first try at the trendiest thing in computing today, “the cloud,” is half-baked.
Dan
ignore the fanturds completely. They are sad geeks who you can never win over. Just like conspiracy theorists, there is no way to reach them. They are lost forever.
Never let them have any influence in your life.
Real Dan, how could you miss the obvious. Jobso is a Beatles fan, even though they sue eachother. He is just having his Paul is Dead moment! Namaste!
Jeeze, Dan… the people you’re whining to & about also spent months enabling someone’s stealth-flack proxy-war by supporting your FSJ blog. Don’t they get a little credit for holding YOUR feet to the fire?
Dan, Dan:
It isn’t OK if Steve Jobs sometimes behaves like a jerk. It’s not only not nice for him to behave that way, ultimately it really isn’t good for him either. (Or for some who have to deal directly with his Jeckyll/Hyde duality). As we know, even the “best and brightest” engage in bad behavior. The creative genius may be (often is?) imbecilic is his consideration of others.
But all the above is quite separate from the fact that many who currently work in media seem to be unable to think about Apple in anything approaching a rational way. I know it’s true; I’ve been observing it as a phenomenon for over 10 years. I am unsure of the reason. My biggest fear is that all reporting I hear and see is actually this lackluster, but I fail to notice.
It’s easy to dismiss those who would let Steve be Steve as “enablers.” For all his thorniness, he is far from a despised man. The are reasons why this is true, and I must also note that even at his most thorny, Steve Jobs is often right.
Best way to deal with any situation is to slap it on the presentation slide and say “look. I had cancer. I survived it. I had a company that was in the sh**ter. I saved it. I had a cell phone that sucked. I created the iPhone. I made Bill Gates give up technology and try easier things, like saving the world. Have you heard of these things? This is better stuff than junk shown at Oprah. I’ve got a broadband connection to Zeus and Delphi. Get over it, mere mortals.
Next slide. Larry Ellison with his yacht. He hates his job. I love mine.
Next slide. Jerry Young. Yahtard.
Next slide. Bill Gates. Saving the world as we speak. rrrright!
And now onto new MacBook Air. 4 gigs of RAM and both cores “firing” at all cylinders. No downclocking, no overheating. Titanium case. Not titanium-allow crap we did in the past, but the real deal. And, not one, not two, not three but 4 (four!) years of unlimited warranty. This is the Porsche of all laptops fellas. You even get a free coupon for Brembo brakes.
The next slide shows the head of the dude who hacked OS X. No more kalyway for him. Note the ugly paper cuts.
Forgot one slide, right before Larry Ellison. That clicker was too fast
“[bunch of kids with bandanas looking cool with apple logos]. Youth. I made it possible. I get them off the streets and put meaning into their life. You can wait for meaning from Semantic Webs, but don’t hold your breath. Buy my product. [Video professor claps from the audience]“
This problem of thoughtless fanaticism is broader than Apple. It’s really a problem of the Internet expanding the space for expression that was previously only available on bathroom stalls. Some people like to rant, and the broader their forum the happier (??) they are.
Scott Adams has a great blog where he talks about all kinds of things that are on his mind. He’s a very thoughtful and interesting guy, but a portion of the comments he gets are rants by thoughtless people, many who completely miss the point of his posts (usually because they don’t listen to people so much as receive inputs and then react in Tourette-like fashion to gross stimulus).
Every once in awhile I find myself over-estimating the thoughtfulness of the average public. Last night as I watched Meet the Press (recorded on DVR), I saw the screen shrink down in preparation for an important announcement. What was it? Only 205 days until analog TV signals stop working. Our government knows how mindless the populace is, and that’s why we get the kind of pablum that we get. Bon Appetit!
What I can’t understand is all the shareholders who act surprised when Jobs and Apple act secretively. Yeah, you knew what he was like and were perfectly happy when the product of his secretiveness and obsessive behaviour sent Apple stock from $5 to $200 in ten years. If they were that bothered about it they would have sold the stock when it came out he had pancreatic cancer the first time. Anyone who held it after that can have no complaints. You know how Apple operates. If you want peace love and understanding buy Whole Foods stock.
We have on one hand a slimeball, liar who happens to write for the NYT who has been making up dirt about Steve Jobs for several weeks (At least) and who could easily have fabricated this whole story, and on the other hand we have a slimeball blogger who bashed blogs nad then went on to write for months as fake steve jobs, attacking pretty viciously while pretending to be a fan.
And when people call you on it, you retreat to the “apple faithful” label. This is proof you’re an idiot who doesn’t actually like apple products. This is the standard issue smear of apple haters.
As if we couldn’t have any valid points we’re, it must all be our “Faith”?
As if you can’t be held accountable by use because we are just reacting to you being “negative”?
Sorry, I’m done enabling your deception of yourself.
Time for you to stand up and take it like a man, Dan Lyons.
Dan,
I agree. Apple is trying to have it both ways here. Either it is a private matter and should not be discussed by the company or it isn’t. If they are treating it a private then stop the “leaks” to the press and stop Jobs from calling a reporter to give him an earful, off the record of course.
Denny Crane!
Folks,
What if the truth of the matter is simply that Steve Jobs has experienced some really, really unpleasant (and known) side-effects from his Whipple procedure and does not want to discuss the non-life-threatening unpleasantry in a public forum?
A doctor speculates here on what is wrong with Jobs at the bottom of his blog entery:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/07/whats_wrong_with_steve_jobs.php
I was cringing just reading it. I think telling the reporter off the record was the right thing to do. It enabled the report to confirm that his situation it is not life threatening, but it does not put a lot of embarrassing and unpleasant info out there which would only be endlessly belabored in a gratuitous manner on the Internet and on the cable news programs. Give the guy his privacy, for God’s sake.
RealDan,
I don’t know if you feel what I wrote before (I have included below again as a reference) falls into the category of me being a Apple fan trying to give them a free pass to do anything they want. If you think that, I believe then you have missed my point and the point of some others who have criticized your recent posts. I do think that if a company (be it Apple or anyone else) acts immorally or unethically, that the public has an obligation to call for change. The thing is, does this situation really fall under this category? Please read again what I wrote below to realize that I was simply calling for us to put our humanity over business and money (I would feel the same way if this was a Microsoft, Yahoo or another CEO). My comment was not informed by a desire to allow Apple to do whatever they want because I think they are some God-Like company as you seem to suggest in this post. Rather it was informed by my desire to be a human being first and a business person second.
The Original Post I wrote:
“Dear Real Dan,
I’m not a good writer like you so I hope you can overlook my simpleness and still see what I am trying to get at in this comment below.
I don’t really know you at all—we are not friends. What I know of you really comes down to what you are willing to share on your blog so I hope you don’t take what I wrote below as a commentary on your character as a whole. Yet, when I read things like what you have written here and on the past 3 or so posts on the matter of Steve Job’s health, it really makes me feel hopeless about humanity. Why are you so angry? Are you a bit fearful about your investment in Apple (I assume you own their stock)? I understand that people who have money tied up with Apple would like to feel all cozy knowing that their investment is in good hands but seriously, is our own financial gain so important that we are willing to reduce a man’s life to a mere product for which we need constant measurements to make sure all is well in our world?
Since Steve is in the position he is in (as a CEO of a publicly traded company which nobody forced him into) I suppose he is obligated in part to disclose to the proper persons issues that would prevent him from being a good steward to the investors of his company. However, do you think it is too much to extend a bit of compassion and grace and allow him to be like one of us for a moment—a human being with feelings, emotions and problems? Or is your investment in Apple more important to you?
Frankly, I think its kind of creepy that you keep writing about this thing. I think you are a pretty eloquent guy who is humorous and smart, but I wish you would show a bit more humanity now.”
RDL is my Web 2.0 hero. You know when not to take yourself literally, you can call bullshit and you too have a toddler who likes to wake you up at an ungodly hour to watch movies.
Dan: Thank you for posting this. I run a company that has produced large-scale community websites for over a decade; whenever we have said anything that can even be *remotely* construed as criticizing Apple, these people come out in droves to tell us we’re evil. At its core, it’s a form of religious irrationality. (The amazing thing is: Steve himself has made some public implications over the years that even *he* thinks these people are nuts. But he plays them like a violin – and they fork over the cash…
As a PR Executive the only thing I will add is that we can only help those who help themselves. Many times I have given advice on how the situation should be handled and then the CEO and their arrogance gets the better of their mouth and they blow it.
I think Real Dan is in the grip of cognitive dissonance. He lashed out in a way that was conspicuously vindictive (I mean, really, it’s “bullshit”? Sounds pretty personal) and he doesn’t have a leg to stand for doing so, but he must maintain his ego-preserving show so now he has to lash out at his critics to try to preserve his evidently fragile “tell-it-like-it-is” persona, which is only making him look even more pathetic (like an alcoholic in denial lashing out at the people telling him he has a problem).
I think he got so much attention, so many strokes from his FSJ persona that he can’t let go of it. He may even think he is the equivalent of Jobs now. And now he’s mad because he may have given up his FSJ act prematurely because he thought Jobs was dying and he’s looking for someone to blame; it’s as if he feels Jobs tricked him into stopping his FSJ blog.
One of the potential negative side-effects of the cancer surgery Jobs underwent apparently is ALS (afferent limb syndrome). Symptoms of this include:
“The more common and chronic form is what can produce nutritional deficiencies over time. Usually, approximately 10-20 minutes to an hour after a meal, the patient will experience abdominal fullness and pain as the liver and pancreas pump bile and pancreatic juice into the partially obstructed afferent limb. These symptoms usually last from several minutes to an hour, although they occasionally last as long as several days. Pressure will build up and the obstruction will resolve by then, sometimes with vomiting. Prolonged ALS with stasis of digestive juices in the afferent limb can result in bacterial overgrowth of the digestive juices sitting there, fatty stools, diarrhea, and vitamin B-12 deficiency.” (Source of quote is listed in my previous post.)
Seriously, why should Jobs be obligated to instill the image of him experiencing frequent diarrhea, fatty stools and vomiting in the public consciousness – especially with the scum in the press who have been gratuitously speculating and badgering him and his company over it for almost two months.
Maybe his PR people were a little tentative at asking Jobs how many times a day he vomits so the can put it in the press release.
If he is not dying and his condition is merely chronic but manageable (certainly Apple has been doing well during this time) and if a future surgery could abate most of his present symptoms (which has been suggested), why should he not have a right to his own privacy?
We currently live under a White House administration that feels no obligation to account for this war, no-bid contracts for Cheney’s Halliburton, corruption, disappearance of billions of reconstruction dollars, torture of prisoners, disclosure of a CIA agent’s identity, illegal wire-tapping of citizens, what goes on when it meets with oil CEO’s behind closed doors and Dan is outraged that Jobs does not want to disclose in a press release how many times he experiences diarrhea a day.
Sad.
Jobs can get pancaked by a ten ton foil-wrapped Chipolte veggie burrito tomorrow, I’ll hang on to my shares. He may be an icon to many, but he’s merely a cool CEO who everyone flocks to around a room.
Go outside, take a gentle stroll in the sunshine. Have a beer. Breathe deep. Whatever. Just leave the keyboard alone and please stop recycling your posts.
Seconded. Except, have a mojito…much better than beer!
Ok, I’m late to this thread, but just wanted to say that I totally agree with you Dan on this. Good commentary! Apple should think as fresh about being nice as they do when creating products.